For our pilot episode today, we’ll be talking about a country that deserves a lot more attention for its winemaking than it currently gets—Hungary. We’ll talk about their most noteworthy regions, native grapes, we’ll taste some wine along the way and finally share our Valentine’s (or Galentine’s) pairings.
Hungary for love? Then fall in love with Hungarian wines.
In this episode, we focus on winemaking in Hungary. Beginning with talk of terroir and excellent winemaking regions, such as Tokaji and Szekszárd, we move on to discuss grapes of note, such as Furmint, Kékfrancos and Traminer.
Our special co-host, Ferdinando Mucerino, former sommelier and Wine Director at the Michelin Star awarded Rustic Canyon restaurant in Santa Monica and 2019 nominee for Wine Enthusiast magazine for Best Wine Director of the Year, starts us off by sharing historical insight into the region including colorful anecdotes behind blends of note, such as Bikavér.
During the podcast, we'll taste 2017 Tűzkő Kékfrankos D.O.P and 2019 Tűzkő Traminer D.O.P., offering detailed flavor notes and pairings. Towards the end of the podcast, we'll teach you a few Hungarian words and suggest a couple of Valentine's Day pairings. Egészségedre!
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Kristin: From Wine Insiders, this is Sniff Sip Repeat—a monthly podcast for lively discussions all about wine. In each episode, we’ll be speaking with industry experts from vineyards and tasting rooms to restaurants and retail to give you a little inspiration for what to pour next.
I’m your host, Kristin. I’ve worked in the wine industry for many years now and I’m excited to bring conversations with my peers directly to you with this podcast. For our pilot episode today, we’ll be talking about a country that deserves a lot more attention for its winemaking than it currently gets—I’m talking about Hungary. We’ll talk about their most noteworthy regions, native grapes and we’ll taste some wine along the way. And since February is just around the corner, at the end of the show we’ll offer a few holiday suggestions—whether you are celebrating Valentine’s or Galentine’s—we have some ideas. Are you ready? Let’s take a sip.
My co-host today is the very talented and charming, Ferdinando Mucerino, who also goes by the name Ferdy. Ferdy is a somm-in-residence at Wine Insiders where he hosts the series Inside Wine with Ferdy. Prior to the pandemic he was somm and Wine Director at the Michelin Star awarded Rustic Canyon restaurant in Santa Monica. In 2019, was nominated by Wine Enthusiast magazine for Best Wine Director of the YTowear. His list of accolades goes on, but I will stop there so we can start chatting.
So, hello Ferdy.
Ferdinando: Hi, Kristin.
K: How are you?
F: I’m great, thank you for having me. I’m always happy to talk about wine, so I’m happy to be here.
K: I’m so happy to hear you talk about wine. I think I really should be saying “szia” because in Hungary they have a greeting that is both hello and goodbye, so Szia Ferdy.
F: Szia, Kristin.
K: So I’m glad you’re here today because I’m really excited about today’s episode topic. So, Wine enthusiasts in general love wine holidays and I noticed that Furmint Day is February 1st. So, not many people know what Furmint is and not many people know about Hungarian wines and it’s a new year and people try new things so I thought it was a great excuse to talk about something so niche, so I’m also actually learning Hungarian—to speak Hungarian—so I’m super excited to learn more about the wines.
For our listeners I’ll give a quick geography reminder. Modern-day Hungary is actually a landlocked country in central Europe and it borders seven other countries: Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Romania, Austria. Slovakia, and even a bit of the Ukraine.
Most of the country is a flat basin and it’s sandwiched between the Alps and the Carpathian mountains, but there are some hilly areas with microclimates that are great for growing grapes. So, speaking of microclimates and the countryside—a question for you Ferdy. Terroir can often be really specific, but generally speaking how you would describe the land and soil in Hungary’s more popular winemaking regions?
F: Well, I’m glad you asked about terroir because terroir to me is such an important term in wine. So, terroir is more than just the soil. The French created this concept which refers to the combination of soil, weather, vineyards, and the culture of a place. I feel like this is an important concept because when you are tasting a wine that has a sense of terroir you are actually tasting a wine that has a sense of place and identity. So, with that said I feel like we should talk about the terroir of Hungary by covering its soil, climate, and culture.
So Hungary is a small country, as you were saying, it’s about actually 7 times smaller than Texas and despite its size, it still has many small wine regions that are scattered in all directions. So with being relatively small you could say the soil retains similar characteristics throughout and Hungary, which is known for being the land of fire and salt, is known for having volcanic soil, pockets of limestone, and because it emerged from the ancient Pannonian Sea it has the sedimentary soils, which are really great for wine-growing.
And then when it comes to the climate it’s continental, so it’s very cold during the winter time and it’s nice and hot in the summer, but never too hot to overripen the grapes.
K: Wow! That definitely sounds really unique, especially with the volcanic influence there so—
F: Yes, it was surrounded by a chain of active volcanoes that were constantly spewing lava, but nowadays there are no active volcanoes in Hungary.
K: Right, but there are—I know there’s—it’s interesting—there are a lot of hot springs, I know, so it’s interesting to think of how much activity is happening underground and how that might play into the soil and the taste and everything. So—
F:Yes, and the city of Budapest is known as the city of the ancient baths.
K: Ah…that’s so…
F: I’ve never been, but I would love to go there.
K: Yeah! Yeah, so Budapest is a very popular city, which actually is I understand used to be considered two cities. It’s on either side of the river and then people refer to it as Budapest, but it’s Buda and Pest, so that’s a pretty popular city most people know about. Most people don’t know about the winemaking regions, so what would you think are the more popular winemaking regions our listeners should get to know when we’re talking about wine?
F: Well, the first one and it’s definitely important to mention is Tokaji in the northeast, which is not just the most important in Hungary, but it’s the region that produces some of the most iconic sweet wines in the entire world: the Tokai aszu wines. These wines are said to be the first-ever wines made using botrytized grapes or grapes affected by the noble rot, which is a fungal disease that shrivels the grapes, so it’s like making wine out of raisins. And these wines have been made in Hungary since the 1600s. In fact, Louis the XIV was a big fan and he promoted the wines by saying that Tokaji was the wine of kings and the king of wines.
The best reds from Hungary come from the central and southern regions. In particular, Villany to the south and Szekszárd in the middle, like near the city of Budapest, and this is where the wines are tasting today come from.
And then you have the regions that are rich in legend, like the Bull’s Blood of Eger. And this is a story about the first invasion of Hungary by the Ottoman empire. So the legend dictates that the Hungarians had been preparing for the invasion by drinking copious amounts of red wine, which they believed would have made them fearless. And because the soldiers were drunk and they spilled wine all over their beards and clothes—once the Turks saw them, they advised the king against the invasion telling him that the Hungarians were unhinged and had been drinking bulls’ blood.
So according to legend, wine saved the day!
K: I think that has probably happened before, but that is definitely without a doubt that is definitely the best backstory I’ve ever heard for the name of a wine. And I think, my teacher was telling me, that might be called Bikavér. Is that right? Bikavér is the name?
F: It is. It’s called Bikavér.
K: Okay.
F: And nowadays it’s still made nowadays and it’s usually a blend of indigenous grapes, like Kekfrancos, blended with international varietals like Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Syrah. It makes some really big and bold wines.
K: Wow.
F: Wines that will definitely make you fearless.
K: Big, bold wines that also have an edgy story to them. That’s great. So, speaking of varietals—let’s talk a little bit about varietals that are native to Hungary or more prominently associated with Hungary; things that are produced there more often. Could you talk about that a little bit?
F: Absolutely. So the grape of Tokaji is Furmint. Furmint is a very special grape because it can achieve exceptional ripeness while maintaining super high acid levels, so the result is these sweet wines that also have a great backbone of acidity, keeping them fresh. And Furmint is also used to make dry whites, which are also exceptional.
Then you have Kekfrancos, or it’s also known as Bläufrankisch and this is a grape that originated in ancient Germany when it was called Franconia. in Franconia, and it was called Blauer because of its bluish hue.And in the middle ages, quality grapes were given the suffix Frankish to show that Franconia produced higher quality wine.And the people of Central Europe, in this case Hungarians, valued these wines so much sothat used them as currency and used them to barter with.The Hungarians and the Austrians adopted this grape and began cultivating them. These grapes became known as Kekfrankos and Blaufrankish which both translate to the blue from Franconia.
K: Kék is blue in Hungarian, so that makes sense to me actually. That’s interesting. Well, I’m really excited to taste it. I know you are too.
F: Yes, so a curious thing about this wine, the name Túzkö—am I pronouncing that right? Túzkö?
K: I think if it’s a z it’s Túzkö.
F: I google translated it and it means flint and it’s funny because the first thing I smelled when I dipped my nose in this glass is it was almost like somebody had lit a firecracker in a fruit shop. It was like all of these flint, gunpowdery aromas, and then tart, beautiful cherry, raspberry notes, some dark chocolate. This is a very special wine it’s medium-bodied, the tannins are really soft and the acid is really high.
K: What would you think about pairing to a wine like that? I mean—obviously, ghoulash is very Hungarian and comes to mind, but what other pairings would you have for that outside of Hungary?
F: Well, I’m thinking of matching the tartness and the acidity by pairing it with, for example, an ornage-glazed cauliflower bites.
K: Ooooh, that does sound delicious.
F: Doesn’t it sound good with this?
K: That sounds really good. Okay, great. And I’m not sure if you mentioned, the Kékfrancos we have today where it’s from. I think the regions is Székszard, is that right?
F: Yes, it’s from Székszard, so in the center of Hungary near the city of Budapest.
K: Ok. Magda, my teacher, told me that’s her favorite wine region. This is delicious.
F: And to go back to what we were saying in terroir you have volcanic soil there and continental climate.
K: Ok. That’s the red side of things, so if we’re going to go on to the white wines of Hungary. I think we have an example here today, Traminer. I think, if I’m not mistaken, much like Kékfrancos which is also called Bläufrankisch, this is goes by another name in many other places, is that right?
F: Yes, actually many names and I love this wine. So based on DNA studies, Traminer belongs to the world of ancient grapes. So from then it spawned into so many different grape varieties, but it’s origins are disputed by Germany, France and alto aldegy in Italy. The things we can say with certainty are that Traminer is the same grape as Savagnin, and Savagnin can be Savagnin Blanc or Savagnin Rose. The wine that we are tasting today is Savagnin Rose, or Traminer Rose, which is known all over the by a more common name, Gewürztraminer.
K: So for our listeners who might not be familiar or as academic as you and I are today, you’re saying “Savagnin”, but it’s not the same as “Sauvignon”. Correct? Sauvignon Blanc is a totally different grape.
F: Yes, you’re correct. It’s a different grape with a different pedigree. This is Savagnin, which is different from “Sauvignon” as in Sauvignon Blanc or Sauvignon Vert or Cabernet Sauvignon.
K: Traminer or—I don’t know if I’ll say it right—Gewürztraminer. How is the…
F: Gewürztraminer!
K: Gewürztraminer! So, what other grape varietals does this translate to? Is it similar to anything?
F: You know, it’s an aromatic grape, so other aromatic grapes are Viognier from France or Torrentes from Argentina.
K: Ok. So for people who like Viognier, this is a great Hungarian wine to try.
F: Absolutely.
K: And how would you pair a wine like this owing to the aromatics and the acid?
F: You know I loved this wine because it had the predominant notes were of grapefruit peel, lychee, tropical fruits like pineapple and guava, so I would pair this wine by contrasting it’s flavors. So I would pair it with something that’s high in acid and maybe with a touch of spice. So, I was thinking like a cold, spicy tomato gazpacho.
K: That sounds delicious. That sounds fantastic. Well, thank you so much for talking to us about Hungarian wines because it’s all new information for me. I love it.
F: My pleasure.
K: I love it. And you have a lot of great information, so maybe we can wrap up the Hungarian section and I’ll share a few Hungarian words. I think the most important one listeners want to know is the word for wine, which is “bor”. And wine is anything but a bore—but that is the word for wine in Hungary. Did you know “bor” is how you say wine in Hungary?
F: Yes, actually because Hungarian is one of only three languages to have its own name for wine instead of deriving from the Latin, vinum. This could mean that winemaking in Hungary predated the Roman times. And the only other two languages to have their own term for wine are Greek, which is “oeno”, and Turkish, “şarap”.
K: Oh wow, that’s really interesting. You know, it’s interesting how language can kind of give clues to history. You know, Hungary is so unique because you know, it is a Uralic language. The only similar languages are Finnish and Estonian, which are nowhere nearby, but supposedly the people came from the Ural Mountains, which is in Russia. So it’s this pocket of people that is probably much more ancient than we all know, which is fascinating. It’s interesting to know. Maybe they went there to make wine? I’m going to believe that.
Some other terms I think would be helpful if people like red wine, there are actually two words for red in Hungarian, but “vörös” is for wine, so you say “vörös bor”. “Féher bor” is white wine and then one of my favorite Hungarian wines is “borravalo”, which is actually the word you use when you are tipping someone. So if you give someone a tip, a waiter or a bartender, or even a cab driver, you give them a borravalo. But I like it because the literally translation form Hungarian is “for the wine”. And I love the idea that long ago the way that Hungarians were kind to each other is after they ordered a meal and some wine they tipped their waiter so that the waiter could by his own wine. So this makes me happy.
F: For the wine! Borravalo!
K: For the wine! Here ya’ go! Thanks for your help, this is for your wine! So, before we finish that I’ll give you one more word, which I’m nervous to say because it’s so hard to pronounce, but “egészségére” is how you say “Cheers!” in Hungarian. So, egészségére Ferdy!
F: Egészségére, Kristin. I have to try and remember that one. Egészségére.
K: Egészségére. It’s very hard. So before we go, one last question for you Ferdy before I let you go. So Valentine’s Day is also around the corner and I’m really excited to get your input because I know that you are a vegan. I am actually plant-based, so two questions for you. What are you thinking of enjoying with your wife this Valentine’s Day and the second question is I’m thinking of ordering the kale and cauliflower nachos from Petty Cash Taqueria. I’m thinking of treating myself. What should I drink with that?
F: This year is one of the very few times I’ll be home instead of in the restaurant for Valentine’s day so I’m excited to be able to cook for her. I’ll probably start with a bittersweet salad with radicchio and fennel. Then an extra rich mushroom ragout poured over rigatoni and if I can attempt at making it, a vegan millefeuille for dessert. And I’m inspired by these wines, so I’ll probably use this Traminer as a pairing for the salad course, I think that the Kekfrancos with a slight chill will pair perfectly with the ragout and I’m going out and I’m going to buy a Tokaji that will accompany the dessert beautifully.
And for your nachos, which by the way they sound so good—
K: They are REALLY good.
F: I would go with something fizzy with a touch of sweetness. Like a prosecco from Bocciamatta.
K: Oh, great idea! I love that Prosecco. That is a really good choice. Ok, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it. It’s interesting to hear that it’s the first time you won’t be in the restaurant, but if you were in the restaurant, as a sommelier when people come in on Valentine’s Day, how do your recommendations to them change for the wine menu?
F: Valentine’s Day is an intimate and more personal experience, so I usually suggest a bottle the pairs with a wide range of foods as to not interrupt the dinner too often. Old Rieslings are a great choice, especially if they are off-dry, because they pair with everything from appetizers to desserts. So I’m there, I make my suggestion, and then I let them enjoy themselves.
K: Good point, that is very thoughtful. That’s a great suggestion. So thank you so much for being here, Ferdy.
F: Thank you so much for having me. Egészségére.
K: Egészségére to you too. Thank you for listening everyone. This has been sniff, sip, repeat from Wine Insiders.
K: If you’d like to try any of the wines tasted on today’s episode go to Wineinsiders.com. Today we tasted two wines by Tüzkö, one was a 2017 vintage Kekfrancos, the other 2019 Traminer.
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