Today we have a very special two-part episode. First, we’re going to talk about wine made by our friendly neighbors to the north in Canada, including the elusive ‘Eiswein’. Then we’ll taste three wines from France and California that we’ve curated to pair to your coziest winter dishes.
In the Northern Hemisphere we're in thick of winter, so we have a very special two-part episode. First, we’re going to talk about wine made by our friendly neighbors to the north in Canada, including the elusive ‘Eiswein’. Then we’ll taste three wines from France and California that we’ve curated to pair to your coziest winter dishes.
Our first guest is Robert Stelmachuk, an Advanced Certified Sommelier with over 30 years in the industry who is currently the Wine Director at Mott32 in Vancouver, Canada. Robert was awarded sommelier of the year in 2020 by Vancouver Magazine and in the same year Mott32 was listed among the top 100 restaurants by Canada Magazine.
Our second guest today is Ferdinando Mucerino, resident somm at Wine Insiders who hosts the video series Inside Wine with Ferdy. Prior to the pandemic Ferdy was somm and Wine Director at the Michelin Star awarded Rustic Canyon restaurant in Santa Monica. In 2019, was nominated by Wine Enthusiast magazine for Best Wine Director of the year.
With Ferdy we pour three amazing wines: from France, 2019 Château du Colombier redblend and 2018 Henri de Lorgère Côtes du Rhône red blend, and from California, 2020 Windsor Hill Barrel Fermented Chardonnay.
Sniff Sip Repeat is brought to you by Wine Insiders, leaders in online wine. Wine Insiders makes buying great wine easy. Founded in 1982 as a club for California wine enthusiasts, Wine Insiders now offers high-quality wines from around the world for the best value and conveniently shipped to your door in just days. The collection is curated by a host of food and wine industry and lifestyle experts, such as Martha Stewart, Chef Geoffrey Zakarian, and Chef Ludo Lefebvre. Learn more about the wines or shop now to taste alongside our podcast guests.
Visit http://www.wineinsiders.com to learn more.
Sound effects obtained from https://www.zapsplat.com
Kristin:
From Wine Insiders, this is Sniff Sip Repeat—a monthly podcast for lively discussions all about wine. In each episode, we’ll be speaking with industry experts from vineyards and tasting rooms to restaurants and retail to give you a little inspiration for what to pour next.
I’m your host, Kristin and I’ve worked in the wine industry for many years now and I’m excited to bring conversations with my peers directly to you. Are you ready? Let's take a sip.
To talk about Canada I’m joined by Robert Stelmachuk, an Advanced Certified Sommelier with over 30 years in the industry who is currently the Wine Director at Mott32 in Vancouver, Canada. Robert was awarded sommelier of the year in 2020 by Vancouver Magazine and in the same year Mott32 was listed among the top 100 restaurants by Canada Magazine.
So hello, Robert, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.
Robert:
Thank you very much for having me on today.
Kristin:
I so excited. So, I kind of wanna’ tell our listeners why you're here. So, I did not even realize I was going to be traveling to Vancouver. Kinda’ had a last-minute trip between Christmas and new year's and you were one of the first people I met because right after flying in, I had dinner at the lovely Mott32, and you were so friendly to sit me down, and then I got this whirlwind VIP tasting.
So, I actually want to thank you. And, um, to say I'm so glad that we met, and I'm so lucky to have you on the show because you really have serious wine chops. So, I like to start every show, letting each guest talk about their background. So, can you tell me a little bit about, you know, who you are and how you got into wine for our listeners?
Robert:
That's kind of a loaded question and it goes back a long way actually. Um, so I was born in Ontario, Northwestern, Ontario, a great little town called Thunder Bay. Um, didn't grow up with wine. Wasn't part of my culture growing up. Um, I've explained before that, to me, probably growing up the coolest part about wine, being able to take the bag out of the box and blow it up as a pillow when I went camping. And that was, that was, that was literally kinda’ awesome. That was, that was wine to me. So, I mean, you know, uh, La Pied D’or I think was the, uh, horrific first foray into wine for me and a little bit of papal wine. I was an altar boy growing up and, uh, I think the very first taste of wine I probably ever had, would've been communion wine. But anyways, um, yeah, so I, I moved to the west coast, uh, probably just after college, just as I was starting my career, I'd already been in restaurants a little bit.
Robert:
And then third day on the job, they were like, oh, we're having a wine tasting for the staff on Saturday. And I was like, that's a thing really? That's like, like what's going like, so someone's coming here to taste wines with us, like so cool. And I met a guy who still today is a very dear friend of mine. Uh, Peter Burrows was working and, uh, we tasted all, I still remember we tasted Leo Buring Orlando or Jacobs Creek and Windham Estates from Australia. And I remember going to him after and saying like, wine can be a good job, like a career what's this about? So I started studying on my own back then, this is, I hate to say it, but this is pre-internet days. And literally the more I started learning about wine, the more I fell in love with it. And it just became this kind of hobby that turned into a career that turned into an incredible life for me, so far being able to, to travel the world with wine.
Robert:
Um, but probably really got serious when I started in a fine dining restaurant in Vancouver, back in the day, called the William Tell. And I found that my guests knew more about wine than I did, and I wasn't comfortable with that. So I started learning at that time. I was lucky to have Brian Turner step in as a wine co coach to me and help mentor me. Um, and then just kind of snowballed from there, literally working at all aspects of the job I've been in the agent importing side, I've been in the education side and certainly, uh, keep coming back to the hospitality side where I love creating guest experiences. Um, but I try to have a different philosophy about what I do. So, yeah, so I don't, I know, you know, the, the other restaurants that I've, uh, you know, I've curated some great wine lists in Vancouver, um, Blue Water Café I opened. I worked for Market by Jean-Georges, uh, the coveted Le Crocodile restaurant here in Vancouver, um, many, many more. Uh, but right now having probably the most fun in my career at Mott32, uh, for those of you who don't know, Mott32 is a fine dining Chinese restaurant. Um, but when I say that, I mean, you know, you say to someone let's go to a Chinese restaurant tonight, they usually picture their dentist office or something that kind of atmosphere. Mott certainly has atmosphere. It has a deep cocktail culture, an extensive wine program. Um, and it's a little bit more forward thinking that, uh, we are one of four Mott32s in the world. There's also Hong Kong where I worked, uh, in 2016, uh, for Mott. Uh, there's Singapore and Las Vegas as well too. So, if you haven't had the chance, I highly recommend you try it.
Kristin:
I had such a wonderful evening. I want our listeners to know
Robert:
So glad that you liked it. I think it really surprises people because like it's not the Chinese dining experience that most people certainly don't expect. We were fortunate, um, right before the shutdown, we made the top 100 restaurants in Canada list and which is a big coveted list to be on. And then looking through the list, I realized that, Hey, you know, we're the only Chinese restaurant on this list that puts us in a pretty nice place.
Kristin:
That’s mazing. So I do agree with you that most people maybe wouldn't go to the vision of what it actually is when you say Chinese, but I lived in San Francisco for 13 years. One of the things that I loved about Vancouver was it reminded me a little bit of the restaurant culture in San Francisco, where it was, um, heavily influenced by Chinese, um, cuisine, Japanese cuisine, maybe that's a West Coast thing probably, but I definitely, it reminded me of, of, of a really elegant version of night I'd had. And even with the, the dim sum was like amazing. And I haven't had dim sum in a while. I mean, we have good dim sum here in LA, but it was outstanding. So anyway, so I think I have to thank you. And you gave me a V I P tasting while I was there and talked to me through a lot. So, you know, I think what I would love to do for our listeners, Canada is not someplace that I think many people will associate with wine. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about the high level on Canadian wine, because my understanding is British Columbia, Ontario are the two biggest producing regions. Could you tell us a little bit about why those regions are, um, known for wine, what it means?
Robert:
Well, I mean, Canada has a thriving wine industry and it has an explosive growth. To give you an idea how big now just the BC wine industry is… I think last year, 2.8 billion contributed to the economic, uh, factor of British Columbia, which is substantial. The Okanagan valley is our premier, uh, wine growing region here, certainly in, in British Columbia. Um, but it's not on the coast. It doesn't really have anything to do with proximity to water type of thing. It has more so to do with, I mean, know, we're, it's about a four and a half, five hour drive to get to the Okanagan valley. And the Okanagan valley as a wine region is massive. And they're slowly developing that into smaller sub what, you know, as ABAs, right? So we call them GIs up here. Uh, well, the wine savvy people do, other than that, we just call 'em wine regions.
Um, but I mean, the Okanagan valley is an example from tip to tail is probably 250 kilometers. Uh, I don't know, that's about 155 miles north to south, right? Look at Napa Napa's only 50, right?
Kristin:
Mm-hmm
Robert:
So, um, we are actually interestingly enough, hotter than Napa. Um, it's classified climatically pretty much as a desert and, you know, we have tumbleweed, and you know, it amazes people how hot it is here. Uh, it's a shorter season, but on average we get, I think it's something like two extra hours per day of sunlight, which if you know much about viticulture is substantial, um, massive soil, uh, you know, uh, different soil types from calcareous to gravel, to limestone, to everything. And BC is just starting now to come into figuring out what its proper grapes should be for proper areas. Uh, you know, the there's the Siramila Valley and Naramata Bench and all these other places that you have that are sub GIs within them.
And they're starting to emerge because maybe this region is better for our little meso climate and this one is better for its particular, you know, soils and whatnot. And those things just take time. And, you know, if you, if you hang British Columbia on the timeline of history, it's infantile. So it's 30, 40 years old on a serious level. I think in, if I remember correctly in 1980, 1981, there was probably 10 to 12 wineries here.
Kristin:
Wow.
Robert:
I think only, I think in 2001, there was only 40 in British Columbia. Wow. Okay. And that's just that like 2001 is not that long ago. Um, and now there's something like 380, so it's a, it's expanding rapidly.
Kristin:
That's incredible. I did not realize it was that recent and I mean to some people listening to eighties won't seem recent, but it, it really is when you talk about other wines in our collection, which are from Bordeaux and Rome.
Robert:
So yeah, absolutely, uh, Ontario does incredibly well as the other province, obviously. Um, they have a they're a little bit further south, uh, and I guess what the up in most of Pelee Islands, I think, or Lake County.
Kristin:
I saw Niagara peninsula was, was listed as a top Appalachian and I've been to Niagara falls. It's I think, you know, for people listening, the great lakes, you know, Ontario is like a border lake right. Between the United States and Canada. So we're when you're talking about Ontario, you're talking about that area, correct?
Robert:
Yes. Yeah. The Niagara Escarpment, uh, and whatnot, um, they're bigger than, well, I think they're bigger. I think they do bigger production, but there is some incredible world class wines, like, you know, 1994, I believe Mission Hill won the Avery trophy for the best Chardonnay in the world. And that helped to start kind of put things on the map. And then, you know, I think whatever… Checkmate recently got a hundred points for one of their Chardonnay, but I, I don't know. I, I stay away from that stuff cuz I am very anti-ratings.
Taste is everything in wine. Like I, I, I try to encourage people that when you go to a store and you see a shelf talker and it says, it tastes like melted blueberry and seductive silky ribbons of chocolate and crush velvet cushions filled with unicorn horns, whatever it is. Um, if that sounds appealing to you, your mouth will like it, buy it. Do I care that it got 88 points versus 90 points? No, but you know, we are forced into a society that pigeonholes people into ratings. That higher number is the best, you know? Because taste is so individual that's something that I really think people need to remember. Like I don't have a sweet tooth. I know sweet wines well. I know how to judge good versus poor, but you could tell me that, that, you know, we could use the analogy with chocolate. You could tell me that this piece of chocolate got a hundred points. I don't like chocolate, so I'm not going to enjoy that. I don't care hundred points doesn't make me want it. So it's about individual tastes. You can certainly balance those things. But anyways, did I, I don't even know. Did I even answer that question about BC?
Kristin:
Absolutely. Yeah. I think that you definitely touched on what I was looking for, which is what are the two regions? Like how big is it in the scope of the world stage? And like where are you in the journey as a wine making nation? And it's fascinating to me your answer because that part I did not know; that it was that recent. I think the one thing I would like to know that we haven't hit on yet is the Canadian wine palette. Do Canadians drink their own wine? Are you, you know, like we're gonna talk about ice wine later, but like, are you making wines just to export or are you making wines to drink? And so what does that mean? Like what do Canadians like are I think you and I talked a little bit when I was at dinner about, there's a, a surprising number of Fordo style wine, for example, what other generalizations can you make about the Canadian palette?
Robert:
If you're talking about what did the consumers look for and what do they enjoy? Um, a great question. Uh, that's I've watched that develop and change a lot in the last 10, 15 years where people were the worst kind of education was a little bit of educate. And if they knew a little bit, it suddenly made them an expert, but they had no idea what they were talking about. It could be said about so many things.
Robert:
Okay. So natural wines made poorly are flaw wines. Like when I got into wine 25 years ago, all those things you were tasting were flaws. They were bad now have I had good natural wines? Yes. I have had a few. You look at Marcel Laier and there's a handful, handful and half of other ones that I really enjoyed. But by and large, you know, I'm asking, I always ask people why like, why are you looking for natural wines or organics? I understand. But even organics are very misunderstood. Um, you know, there's different, you can make organic wine from non-organically grown grapes, et cetera. And there's categories for everything and whatnot. Right? So it's just a matter of educating the public more properly. But what I've really enjoyed is that lately I've been hearing a lot of, well, I drink a lot of Pinot, so what else is there out there?
Robert:
And that's what I'm after. If you want to spend the rest of your wine life drinking Italian P Grio and Argentine, email Beck, all the power to you, nothing wrong with that. You're gonna have a happy life. Your mouth's gonna be enjoyed enjoying a lot of different flavors and you'll be happy. But if what you like about L back is a value priced wine that is dark core black fruits. Um, well maybe I can introduce you to monastery from Kuya in Spain. And maybe I can introduce you to revisit Merlo again, because Merlo got bashed so bad after side roads, right? Yeah. Um, so I mean, I, we, we actually at Mott32, we offer these wine adventure reservations and it's kind of a take on OMA cost, but about wine, you don't know what you're going drink and what you're going to eat and everything is sort of blind.
Robert:
And I use it as an opportunity not to try and make the guests guess what they're drinking, cuz that's an uncomfortable position. I never wanna put my guest in, but I want to use it as an opportunity to introduce new food and wine pairings to spell the myths behind pairing wine with Chinese food. And at the same time, introduce people to new regions or grapes or, you know, I mean I use wines from Uruguay and Tenat and Turkey. Um, you know, maybe serving someone, a red wine from Greece that they're not familiar with. Uh, there's so many great wines, but it's the development of your pallet. Right. And I've seen that happen. How did we get from, you know, noodles to ma to pasta, right? How did we get from bread to baguette and it's your palate develops? Right. Um, and that I've seen happen a lot with the Canadian palate in the last few years where they're a lot more educated, they're a lot more savvy. Um, and their expectations are higher. Um, but yeah, I mean the Canadian palette suite, there's still a big, you know, I work a lot with an Asian clientele and they are looking for sweet red wines. Um, and that has to be kind of coerced into, well, all red wines are dry except for pot. We'll talk about that another time.
Kristin:
You can do almost on the, I
Robert:
Know. Well, yeah, I did an episode, an entire episode, a very controversial one as it turned out to be on YouTube. Uh, my channel there about why and the, the, the caption is why I love APO Cabernet. And instantly when I launched it, I started getting texts from people going, are you lost your mind? What did the pandemic do to you? Like what are you thinking about? But if you watch it for the four minutes that it is, you can't tell me I'm wrong. If you like it, there's nothing wrong with that. I also don't wanna ostracize people who love that wine. Mm-hmm
Kristin:
I think about, see I drink coffee black. I drink tea without, you know, I don't like milk and sugar added to anything mm-hmm
Kristin:
Muscato it's muske. And it was so bone dry. If I had had tasted that when I was 30, I would've been like yuck. Like I just wouldn't have known, but I was tasting it in a very specific setting with a somelier I think, you know, Chris Carella is the one who I was like tasting with. I think you guys are, are connected online. I saw um, yeah. And he, when he explained it to me, I think there was something about the context I wasn't eating. It was just like a, you know, afternoon. And like, I fell in love with it and I, and it's so dry and you can't have, like, you can't go to the theater or have a glass of red and then have a glass of muske because then you'll be like, this is trash. Yeah. But it, it, there's something very specific about it. And I, I, it's a long way of saying, I think it, everyone is on a wine journey and each part of the journey's okay. But I think unfortunately, people miss out on things if they have things at the wrong time. So I think there is like a place for the APOs and the, the, some of those wines. And, and we have certainly wines in our collection that are on the sweeter side, but I've much enjoyed wine more. Now that I'm at the play where I can drink a Quee and be like, Ooh, like this
Robert:
Is delicious. Well, yeah. And people, uh, not only will, not only will the marketplace help educate and develop those pellets, but so do people. I mean, I, man, one of my companies, I, I manage private home sellers and guys that I was buying every massive Napa Cabernet for back in the, you know, late nineties, early two thousands have gotten older, getting closer to retirements. And now they're all drinking, burgundy and PI
Kristin:
Burgundy is I feel like the same place in the journey, Chris Howell. And I were talking about that. You get to a place where Jen burgundy is all the rage. And I feel like that's, I I'm, I'm sort of at that place where I'm like, oh, I wish I wish I could afford to buy burgundy
Robert:
For well, that's, that's the other thing too. You also need to get to place in your life where you can afford to buy burgundy.
Kristin:
I'm not, I'm not quite in that place, but I, I can appreciate it. So it's aspirational, which is good.
Robert:
Mm-hmm
Kristin:
I wonder I'm gonna have to Google after. I'm not sure I'm in that place in my journey. Could you say it again?
Robert:
Well, you know, I had the pleasure of spending quite a bit of time there with Valpolicella Consortium and you see this, I mean, Valpolicella should be light soft and fruity and every day, like you can get away with having this with seafood, like salmon or scallop or whatever. But what would happen is in the region, you'd have somebody who wants to make the best or have the number 1:00 AM or Valpo cell. So they would make it a bit heftier and got, got it. Okay. Well that, but that's what re Pasos for. Right? And your Repasso shouldn't taste like your Amarone, your Amarone, you know what I mean? It should be three distinct clear lines. That's another thing altogether.
Kristin:
Robert:
I mean it's a little bit misunderstood by a lot of people. So a lot of people are familiar with probably the most famous dessert wine in the world, which OB be SHA chat de cam. And so, so turn of course made by ized, uh, affected, uh, grapes. Right? And if you think about the principle and how bot try this works on grapes, right? It pierces little holes in the skin, some of the water inside evaporates out, concentrating the sugars, making it sweeter. That's the Cole's note version. Well with ice wine, what happens is you have to leave the grapes hanging on the vine to freeze completely, usually two minus seven by law, um, to be classified, you have to be have your harvest, your grapes at minus seven. So essentially now what's happened is all the water inside the grape has frozen. I use it an analogy that isn't the most palatable thing to think about, but if you've ever gotten gasoline in water mixed together, you put 'em in a bag, you freeze it, the water freezes.
Robert:
Okay. So think of the gasoline as the sugar, uh, again, not a great analogy, but now you can't bring the grapes into the winery because it would slowly warm up and it would dilute them. So you have to roll your press outside. Um, you know, you, the, the grapes get harvested at three, four or five o'clock in the morning when they're as cold as they can be. They put into a press and it's literally like pressing a frozen block of ice and you extract this little nectar droplets of sugary goodness, and takes a long time to ferment out. Um, it is incredibly lusciously sweet. Um, um, and it became popular in Canada, probably the late mid seventies. I think Hayley was the very first one ever. Um, I think 1978 was the first commercial from what I recall, uh, release, but going back through the timeline of history.
Robert:
Yes, the Germans first, I think probably the early 17 hundreds had made ice wine and I'm sure it was made like many good things it was made by accident. Um, mm-hmm,
Robert:
I need a, I prefer a grape that has a higher acid balance. Um, obviously reasoning does incredibly well. There is a, a grape called vial that does really well with it here in, in it as well. And then in, I think I have to check the dates, but I think the first red dessert wine was made, I think from Parian Ontario, would've been made from Merlo and red ice wine is a little bit more unique, certainly more red Berry fruits to it, um, like regular ice wine, depending on the grape. You're usually in the ballpark of this honey comb, apricot, saturated, white peach flesh, that kind of thing. Um, whereas with any of the reds, you have cherry strawberry rhubarb, tart fruits, but then again, lusciously sweet. So, you know, the question becomes what do with these things? You know, I remember working retail many years ago and someone saying, oh, I hate ice wine.
Robert:
And I always have a professional curiosity. Like, why do you hate ice wine? What did it do to you?
Robert:
Yeah, exactly. Um, but you know, what do you pair with it? You know, if you look at classic food and wine pairing principles, you're talking always make sure that the wine is sweeter than the dessert. Well, ice wine is so sweet that honestly, my always my recommendation has been, what do I pair with it? I'm like, you don't pair anything to it. That is dessert. Have a little, two ounce glass. Mm-hmm,
Robert:
I've done so many things with it over the year, but I like getting away from desserts with ice wine. Um, I use this a dessert wine, not an ice, unfortunately, but I use do use a dessert wine with one of the dishes at Mott32, the shallowing bow, uh, soup dumpling, which has a little elevated spice to it. So I pair it with a extremely rare Mascato Rosa, it's a, Mascato from Northeastern Italy, Andino, but it's red. And it can is, you know, the Moscato grapes will naturally mutate to red grapes. But anyways, um, I have paired it very successfully with things like, uh, fo GRA, especially if you do the Torson of fo GRA like the cold pat style. That's a great pairing. That works really, really well. But yeah, I mean always in 3 75 mil bottles, always very expensive. I mean, you can expect to pay, you know, upwards of 70 to $130 for a half bottle of it at a retail level. That's substantial, you know, so
Kristin:
Yeah, because I imagine it's low yield, so it would be pricer just in that sense and
Robert:
Then very much so
Kristin:
I think when I was at ma you poured me Penta Ruan mm-hmm
Robert:
Perhaps yeah. The Russ
Kristin:
Ice one I've heard about in Gillin and then I was at the airport and all I saw was pillar of states at the duty free
Robert:
Well, think of
Kristin:
Those are three to know, or what are the
Robert:
Definit only not, uh, well the Penta, yes.
Kristin:
Penta. Yes.
Robert:
OK. I will always have a great deal of respect for the en Gillin because that was the craft mine major of Dondo, one of the pioneering fathers of Canadian wine. Um, and I think I even have some super old bottles in my cell here, but, uh, of his I wine. I just think that there are better ones. When you look at what mission hill is doing for ice wine, certainly tinhorn Creek. Um, uh, I use Penta, uh, there's a, you know, Garinger brothers make some fantastic ones too. So, I mean, there are quite a few of them up there for ice wine, but basically my foray for people is if you don't have a, a, a pension for sugar tastes, 'em at a restaurant level somewhere mm-hmm,
Robert:
And they should have probably a nice wine depending on the restaurant. Right. And if I would rather have guests try it for $22 for two ounces, uh, and see what it tastes like, and if they like it, then yeah, go buy it. And honestly, uh, I, I, I would gravitate personally. I would recommend gravitating towards grapes that have a more natural acidity to them, like, uh, reasoning mm-hmm
Kristin:
When I was in Mott32, we were talking about how you built, uh, up a wine collection there. I know you've been doing this for years. So if you were to put together a really impressive Canadian wine seller of like five or six of the best Canadian wines by vintage, like by, by producer, what would be a, in the collection? I think you already mentioned a mission hill award winning wine. What else would you have in there?
Robert:
Well, I, I think that's, it's such a good question. And I think this answer changes year to year, because, because there is a lot of variability, um, even though I love a wine in one year, I'll make sure I taste it the next vintage before I commit to it. Right. So I would do it this way. I would say, let's assume you're moving up here and I have to build you a BC wine cellar. No holds barred. Okay. So I would start with some bubble. You probably want some classics in there, like blue mountain, make some incredible bubble. Um, there's a lot more other great bubble, uh, sumac Ridge stellar, J there's a whole bunch of them. Uh, I would get you some white wine for sure. I would probably S stock it with some kettle valley PIRE, maybe, uh, checkmate. She Chardonnays, you know, they definitely are expensive, but really world class Chardonnays Meyer Chardonnay, for sure.
Robert:
Um, I would put in some, any of the wines from little engine, I'm not gonna lie. I, I have a personal tie to them, but also I can unabashedly speak professionally that these anything they're doing is amazing. And that's Sonia Blanc, Chardonnay, Pinot noirs, three different tiers. Uh, I would make sure that you had some of probably their, just their entry, silver Sevin Blanc from little engine winery, um, probably the gold Chardonnay and the gold Pinot noir, probably, uh, for sure or those who get in there. Um, I put some reasoning in from rime and probably some reasoning from tans as great classic examples of what we can achieve here. Um, Pinot noir, probably one meal road. If you can get your hands on it, incredibly small production, but what a world class wine, maybe Foxtrot, uh, then I would get into some bigger reds echo bay Cabernet Fran, certainly what John Skinner's doing at painted rock winery, his rah, along with, uh, Lavu pen, rah, I would want some of that in there, or a pheno Cabernet.
Robert:
They have this delicious little $20 Cabernet that I just can't get enough of. Um, and yeah, maybe it's just some blends. Pento makes some wonderful Roan blends. I would definitely talk about some Roan varietal whites in there. Yeah. And then some Merlo from whoever knows mission hill, you could do mission hill Merlo, it's fantastic. You know, doesn't have to break the bank. Um, but I'm, yeah. There's so many wineries that I would love to, to make, to introduce people to, I always travel with BC wines. I'll always grab four or five bottles. Martin's lane Ling. I brought last time, uh, I brought that painted R raw. I brought a checkmate char and I brought, uh, Meyer Pinot noir as well. So, um, yeah, it's kind of like a hit list. Like, you know, you're gonna go broke, but you're gonna drink really well.
Kristin:
This is good. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, this is gonna be my, um, dream seller
Robert:
And I'm gonna get killed for everybody. I didn't mention on this.
Kristin:
Uh, you, you know, we haven't talked about Nova Scotia. There is Nova Scotia wine right. Far
Robert:
The east Benjamin bridge. Heck yeah. You wanna talk about world class bubbles? Yeah,
Kristin:
I want, so I was gonna ask about bubbles because I was on an impression that, um, they did some sparkling wine there.
Robert:
They do fantastic wines. Uh, you know, I don't really know the winemaker or anybody up there. Um, but every time I have an opportunity, um, I've gone out for champagne with friends and wind up buying that first, cuz it was on the list. You know, they are abso it's like look at, but that the global warming too, you wanna talk about ice wine future less and less it's being made because it's getting too hot. Right. I remember I was, uh, filming a, an interview with Scott Robinson, the winemaker at little engine last summer, I met him at nine in the morning to do the shoot out in the vineyard. It was 42 degrees out already at nine in the morning, I think, or 38 or something like that, which is what a hundred, 110 Fahrenheit. Right? Like holy smokes. So it's getting hotter. So yeah,
Kristin:
With climate change, it both is much hotter and much colder. We had, I had a guest on the show and we talked about sustainability and whatnot, but he, he was saying that, you know, yeah, every 10 years you used to lose an entire vintage, but now it's like every four
Robert:
More frost. I think we have to start watching. And as soon as they start making ice wine in burgundy, we all move to Mexico.
Kristin:
When they start making it in Mexico, we're really in trouble. Oh my God. Yeah. So I arrived. So I've been to Canada before, but I had never been to Vancouver. So this recent trip that I mentioned when I met, I, I showed up and it was like eight degrees. I mean, Fahrenheit, like not even sell, I don't even know what that is Celsius cuz I'm like, I don't know
Robert:
The, it was not that cold. When
Kristin:
Were, it was so cold. It was not, it was so cold. And I looked at my iPhone and it said eight and then it said 14. So I think it was like 14. And then the rest of the week, it was like 20 to 29. But I live in LA. So I, the, after I met you, the second thing I did was I had to buy a coat
Robert:
Moose knuckles coat. I was shocked when moose knuckle came out because I'm like, that was such a different term when I was a kid.
Kristin:
Oh, is it FA, is that not for
Robert:
Podcast? Um, well
Kristin:
I think I know what it is, but I'll just say like my moose knuckles coat was amazing. It got me through the week and now that I'm in LA, I'm like, I'm never gonna wear that thing.
Robert:
I can easily sell that for you. Moose. Knuckle is a highly, uh, regarded brand right now. It is.
Kristin:
Yes. It's a ice code is
Robert:
I bet you, nobody in LA knows what a moose
Kristin:
Is. Even. I've only seen a moose once in, in real life
Robert:
Actually. So, oh. I grew up in Northwestern, Ontario. I see them all moose. They're so beautiful. I bet. Yeah. Well they're terrifying if you know a lot about them because it's one of those animals that God forgot to put a size limit on. It's like, they're like, they're enormous. They can die like up to, you know, 30, 40 feet hold their breath. Like, oh, it gets terrifying. But anyways, definitely off topic. I have. I've also paired wine to moose before.
Kristin:
I think they're a little bit like a rhinos, right? Like people don't realize that's that's the real danger people go and they're like worried about lions and I think NACES kill more people. Yeah. Because you've you get in front of them. They'll just charge. And your, and your, your odds are the odds are not in your favor.
Robert:
No,
Kristin:
I always think of the moose is so friendly cuz there's cartoon. What? There's that cartoon with a moose when I was a kid. Wait now I'm I'm embarrassed. I can't remember Rocky and Baldwin. Yes. Rock. Thank you.
Robert:
How to read the world of squirrel and moose
Kristin:
Robert:
No, it's just under my name, Robert stoma, but I do three series on there. I do wine talk, which are educational geared. And then I do bottle talk, which are wine reviews where my whole shtick is wines are reviewed, never rated. Um, and then I do a series called behind the label where I do interviews with people, you know, create the, the things I've got big things coming this summer for the, for the channel when I can get back to it. I've obviously spent the last three months getting back up and running in, you know, a mad pace of Christmas and 18 hour days and whatnot. But when I started to interview, um, winemakers, I thought, I, how can I do it? Where it's a little bit different than everybody else. So you can interview a wine maker and he can talk about the barrels he uses in the soil and what the pH balances is.
Robert:
And honestly, no one cares, you know, if you're, uh, someway and you want, and you need for professionally, you need those things. They're available on the website. You can get all that. But if social media is about personal connectivity, then why can't I try to do something goofy and fun to help people want to connect to a wine maker. And this actually came, I was having dinner with, uh, David and Cynthia S who owned one mill road, uh, dear friends of mine, brilliant Pinot noir. Oh my gosh. They used to have, uh, uh, laughing, stalk vineyards. But anyways, um, I asked David, I said, you know, what's the biggest downside of switching to doing one mill road from what you were doing at Ketle valley or sorry at laughing stock. And he said, I only have one wine. He's like, what if like before if someone said, oh, I don't like Pinot noir, then you could pour the number low or the Bux bland or the rah or whatever, but I don't have that anymore.
Robert:
And I started thinking about that and I thought, well, if, if social media will be per about personal connectivity, then what if we do some kind of a stupid interview to make people want to try his wine? Like this guy just seems like fun and cool and wanna try his wine. So in the interviews I ask like, sure, if you're wine is a household pet, what would, what would it it be if you had a superpower, what would you want it to be? Um, one of the questions that I love asking is if you had to go into witness relocation, what would you do? Where no one, you know, would know how to find you. You find a lot about people when you start asking them questions like that, but hopefully, you know, it's fun and they're like, you know, Scott sounded super cool. I wanna go by and check out little engine wines. Now, if I can make that happen once it's worth it. And yeah, I mean, it's just, it's just a fun outlet for me. They trickle over into my Instagram as well. Um, a little bit. My Instagram is, you know, I do different series on there. I do between two dragons, which is kind of like game of throne spinoff.
Robert:
No, I kind of interview the wine as if it was a person. Oh, okay. It was a take on between two ferns, so, oh, of course. Yeah. If you read through, if you know wine and you read through the interview, you'll get the entire tasting note of that wine in the interview. Be that from what they're sitting on or what they're wearing or what they're drinking in it, like whatever. Well, I'm
Kristin:
Gonna throw one of your questions back at you, then let's pretend you're in the wi witness protection program and you can't go back to work tomorrow. If you could take your talents for wine and you had to move somewhere where you don't have friends and family and you could hide out, where would you wanna hide out? Where in the world would you go?
Robert:
Where would I wanna hide out?
Kristin:
Yeah. Like it could be like in a vineyard in South Africa or
Robert:
No, because it, everyone would be looking in wineries for me. So if I had to get away, if I had to get away, it would probably be, I don't know. I'd go be a ranch hand on a farm in South Africa, probably cause I've never been to South Africa, but I keep hearing about it.
Kristin:
Well, if you go there, we gotta connect you with Alex Dale. Who's an amazing guy. Thank you so much. You've given me so much time today and it's so great. I'm just so grateful. We met when I was up there recently and we'll stay connected and, and thanks for being on the show. I really appreciate
Robert:
It. You know what, uh, Kristen, I really appreciate your time and having me on, I loved it. I think it's fantastic. Anyone that's listening, if you want to, whatever, follow along on YouTube IG or you want to visit me in Mott32, when you're in Vancouver, reach out. Absolutely. We'd love to show you what we're doing. So thank you so much.
Kristin:
Okay. And now for this second segment of this podcast, we're gonna do a wine tasting. So I wanna welcome onto the show. Our resident Samaya who's joined me many times before Furie so hello. Furie
Ferdy:
Cha Christine
Kristin:
Cha. Good.
Ferdy:
You and I'm ready to drink some wine with you.
Kristin:
Ah, Ben NA for wine tasting today, I wanted to put together a list of three wines. It would be great to have on the wine rack during winter. And what that means is these are the months when a lot of people are staying indoor, getting cozy, eating casserole or soup or other winter fare. So three wines we have on the list. I today I have two reds in a white, so let's start with the Chatto de Columbia, a 2019 vintage farm Bordeaux it's boutique. And it is a gold medal winner. So Freddie, do you have this wine? And can you tell us a little bit more about it?
Ferdy:
Absolutely. Um, I love, I love Bordeauxs with winter foods. Cause when I think of winter foods, uh, what comes to mind is always like hearty, stews and winter, vegetable, stews, and soups, and uh, heavier foods, like things that stick to your bone, like you're cold and you want something cozy and comforting. Um, and it's always hard for me to pair wine with soups or because you're doing liquid with liquid. So that could be very tricky, but there's one thing that I always think when I do a wine pairing is, um, the analogy between food and wine. And here's so hear me out on this one, cuz it might be a little tricky. So when I think of a red Bordeaux winemaker, I always think of a chef that's making a soup cause a Bordeaux winemaker every year picks the best grapes out of the five or six available red grapes, Inez, or he or she has in his vineyard and makes the best wine for the year.
Ferdy:
So it's almost like, and I, I feel the same when I'm making a soup. So I pick the best ingredients that I can find around and I'll, I'll try to make the best possible soup. So there's a big analogy there, but obviously you can pair a red board though with every soup, but when it comes to winter soups, you have those, you know, hearty star, Archie ingredients and a Bordeaux typically is not a big, bold wine. It's a medium bodied wine. There are not a lot of tannins. There's good acid. It's usually like the, the, uh, the goal for a Bordeaux winemaker is to make a balanced wine. So you can, you start with, you know, a, a good, a good balanced wine with a nice hearty soup. And I think they match already because of, uh, you're matching the, the, the flavor profile of the soup, which is hearty with a, with a wine that has good fruit flavor, good savory flavors. That's something that's complimentary to the flavors of the soup. So I like red BDOs like with spicy lentil soups or beef stews, um, even a potato and leaf soup, something that's even more starchy, rich, uh, French ion soup, uh, would be another great pairing. So for me, red, BDOs their SOS perfect pair.
Kristin:
I think this wine has while it has the expected notes of cherry and red current, it also has a little vanilla and spice, which to me is also very wintry makes, you know, you just get that little hit, extra hint of vanilla and spice. And it makes me immediately think of hot Coco
Ferdy:
And I love, I
Kristin:
Love the wine tastes like Coco.
Ferdy:
And I don't know if you can, uh, if you can perceive that on the nose, but I get savory elements like Bailey and to me, Bailey always rounds up and makes, gives a little sweetness to the soups. So for me, that is what gets me more excited about this kind of pairs, like, um, wine set of a vegetable component. And Bordeaux always does sometimes it's, um, you know, bay leaf or, um, or Sage, um, or, uh, it could be very mineral, like pencil shavings or Wetstone. And I feel like those, those are very complimentary to, uh, ingredients that come from the dirt, like onions, potatoes, or sweet potatoes.
Kristin:
What soup are you gonna be making for the rest of this winter? Do you have anything in mind?
Ferdy:
I, I mean, I'm going to be very, very stereotypically Italian, but my favorite soup is mini throne. Oh, my favorite
Kristin:
Too. This is why we get along.
Ferdy:
I love and mean throne would be fantastic with this Bordeaux because Bordeaux, the fruit of Bordeaux is always a CASIS mm-hmm
Kristin:
Absolutely. Perfect. Okay, great. Okay. For our second wine, I have the 2018 on Rita. Loja Ray coed around, and this is a delicious, full bodied red blend, uh, from France. Obviously it's very dry. Unlike the first wine, this one's a little bit more on the black fruit side with spice and licorice. Um, I've had it a few times. I loved it. It was absolutely delicious. So fruit, now that you're tasting it, can you give us a little more insights on this one wine?
Ferdy:
Absolutely. And I love coat the wrong wines, you know, in France they're considered the working class wines and they get associated with country style or rustic cuisine. And that's very wintery to me. So all I'm thinking about right now is we're moving on from soups and stews to like, like things that are roasted, like roasted the roasted squash and pumpkin or roasted chicken, all things that, uh, the style that we are going to do, the style of pairing that we're going to do for this, um, is a technique that's called matching the weight of the food with the weight of the wine. And this is not a measurement. And it's a, it's a, it's a tactile sensation that you get on your pallet. So I'm gonna give you like the brief explanation of it. If I give you three different bites that are the exact same size of different foods, for example, I'm gonna give you a bite of fish, a bite of chicken and a bite of beef.
Ferdy:
They're the same exact, but when you chew on it, they have a different consistency and different, you know, different weight to wear different density. And the same thing I'll do it with, I'll give you three glasses. One is going to be skin milk. Another one is gonna be whole milk. And the other one is going to be half and enough. So you'll, you'll see, oh, it's still milk, but it tastes different as a different density. Right? So with wine, with wine parents, we do the same thing. So we'll match the weight of the wine with the weight of the food. So when I think of a wine like this, I would say, I will, I will put this in the medium, in the medium category, like chicken, like butter, not squash or, or potatoes, again, like roasted potatoes with Rosemary.
Kristin:
And where would you, where would you put Ratta two a in there? Would that be in this category?
Ferdy:
I would, yes. Ratta two would be perfect in this category because there is, it's not a light texture, so it's not as soft per se to say like a flaky white fish. It's not as, as dense as chewing on a, you know, chewing on a ribeye steak or chewing chewing on, uh, like a, a pork chop, like it's right in the middle. There's some chewing, there's some resistance that you get. So you need some tenants to help you with the chewing and to stimulate your appetite and you need some acid. So this one will match that perfectly. And I'm loving beside the black fruit that you were mentioning and the licorice I'm also tasting a lot of that Grenache quality, a lot of that raspberry, a lot of the mastery, the strawberry, and there's, there's a, the warming sensation that's coming from the alcohol percentage is also very, uh, very comforting, very wintery.
Kristin:
How does this wine pair up with a casserole for someone who's doing sort of like a green bean casserole or something that's sort of warm and toasty?
Ferdy:
I feel, I feel that the, uh, the, the crunch, uh, adds a little texture. So you're, again, you're matching those textures. Um, this one has a little bit of a, as a touch of vanilla as a touch of VO. So that plays well with the back crumbs on top, uh, there's enough acid to cut through the fattiness of the, a cream that's used in the casserole. And then the fruit plays well with the vegetal component of the green bean. The green bean tend to be very vegetal, uh, very like, you know, the chlorophyl as that, that vegetative, uh, tastes to it. So the, the, the black fruit, the red fruit plays really well with that.
Kristin:
Great. And I obviously would also go with chicken casserole, right?
Ferdy:
Of course. Yeah. Perfect. E even a, even a, a mushroom casserole.
Kristin:
Oh, mushroom casserole. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm
Ferdy:
Kristin:
All right. Last but, so certainly not least, uh, this is one of our newer wines. I'm excited to introduce it to our listeners today. We're gonna taste the 2020 Windsor Hills barrel fermented Chardonnay. This is absolutely very velvety this wine and it's, uh, California wine, the may flavor notes or citrus, but it has vanilla and caramel from it, obviously from the barrel fermenting. So let's have you, now that you've poured a glass, this Verde, why don't you take a sip and tell us what you think?
Ferdy:
Okay. Well, first off, let me just, let me just say, I, I, I did a little preview of this one and a little
Ferdy:
So I'm thinking, you know, a category of foods that we haven't considered yet when it comes to winter are baked, um, like a baked ke, uh, or a chicken pot pie, um, a Foca like a nice pizza meat in the oven, like things like that, uh, those kind of foods, uh, these kind of foods you don't have, you can pair them with a light wine. You can pair with a big, bold red. So you need something that is that's in between. And a big, bold white is the perfect option for that. And, uh, based on the fact that when I taste a Chardonnay like this pie, crus is one of the things that comes to mind already, like ke and chicken pot pie will be my, uh, my recommended pairings, because think of, uh, think of the wine beam like that extra buttery and flaky sensation on your palette, then the acid of this wine helps you cut through the richness. Then there's that pop of citrus notes that it's always good to add acid acid, uh, as it makes you salivate, as it makes you digest better, as it makes you want more food. So when it comes to pairing this Chardonnay, I'm thinking, there you go, ki Lorraine, um, chicken pot pie, uh, mashed potatoes.
Kristin:
My mom actually loves Chardonnay. So I think she'll love this wine. I might have to send her some this winter. I think Chardonnay is a really food friendly wine. Isn't it?
Ferdy:
Chardonnay is an excellent food wine. And, uh, you know, let me say something about Charnay then I, I always, I'm always a, I like to champion Chardonnay because Chardonnay is a bad rep. Like sometimes people could be like, I hate it or love it. Relationship can have a hate it, or Lovet relationship with Chardonnay. It's too Oky, or it's too buttery. It's too heavy. Uh, I would say don't hate the grape hate the wine you're drinking. Cause it's not about the grape. It's about how the grape is made. Chardonnay can be, as I was saying before, Chardonnay is a chameleon. Chardonnay can be tar green, apple and lime, and it could travel the food, the, the fruit spectrum all the way to mango pineapple, something a little bit on a, on a juicier side. It just depends on how the winemaker uses it. The key is always balance.
Ferdy:
So Chardonnay is super food friendly and very versatile because you could find the chary imagine like when you buying Chardonnays, like buy apples, mm-hmm
Ferdy:
Pieros you get more of the buttery caramel butter Scotty kind of apple. Um, but would you say no to any of these kinds of apple? I could never say apples. I love apples. I like green apples and I like red apples. I like apple pie made with a red apple and apple pie made with a green apple. So for me, uh, Chardonnay is always a winning choice. I love it. But I do, I do agree with, like, I do agree with that comment that people says, like, you know, if, if the too much of one thing is no ever good mm-hmm
Kristin:
Okay. Ferdie, thank you so much for all the insights. These are three ones we haven't had on the podcast yet. So I'm glad we got a chance to talk about 'em. I'm really excited to try some of your winter food suggestions. I think I'm definitely gonna do some sort of mushroom ke or casserole, uh, in the coming, coming month. So thanks for joining me again.
Ferdy:
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me like I'm I'm gonna get cooking right now. I
Kristin:
Know. Well, I, or baking your baked ideas. Sound good too. I
Ferdy:
Might have to go. Yeah. We came up with some good ideas.
Kristin:
Okay. Well, thanks everyone for listening and see you on the next episode
Kristin:
For today's podcast, we tasted three once from our collection from France, we tasted the 2019 Chatto to Colombia red blend, the 2018 on Rita lore, Coone red blend. And from California, we tasted the 2020 Windsor hill barrel fermented Chardonnay to enjoy 35% off storewide use today's podcast code Canuck 35 as always to order these wines, visit wine insiders.com leaders in online wine, get better wine delivered in days.