It's tax season here in the US! Join our guest host Sumner as he interviews our resident somm Ferdy to get some grape vine-ancial advice. The best investments grow over time, so why not find out more about the specifics of wine that ages well? They taste three wines from our collection that are good buys that get better with time.
It's tax season here in the US! Join our guest host Sumner as he interviews our resident somm Ferdy to get some grape vine-ancial advice. The best investments grow over time, so why not find out more about the specifics of wine that ages well? They taste three wines from our collection that are good buys that get better with time.
For this tasting you will hear all about the flavor and aging potential of Château Grand Champ Blaye Côtes de Bordeaux Cuvée Vieilles Vignes from France, Porto Lagarada Reserva Ruby Port from Portugal and Windsor Hills Barrel Fermented Chardonnay from California.
Sniff Sip Repeat is brought to you by Wine Insiders, leaders in online wine. Wine Insiders makes buying great wine easy. Founded in 1982 as a club for California wine enthusiasts, Wine Insiders now offers high-quality wines from around the world for the best value and conveniently shipped to your door in just days. The collection is curated by a host of food and wine industry and lifestyle experts, such as Martha Stewart, Chef Geoffrey Zakarian, and Chef Ludo Lefebvre. Learn more about the wines or shop now to taste alongside our podcast guests.
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Sumner:
From wine insiders. This is sniff. SIPPET a monthly podcast for lively discussions, all about wine. In each episode, we'll be speaking with industry experts from vineyards and tasting rooms to restaurant and retail. Give you a little inspiration on what to pour next. I'm your host Sumner, Leveck it's April, which can mean only one thing. Nope, not spring, not Easter or Passover. That's right. Tax season. As much as we all don't want to think about April 18th, hard not to think about money and the investments we've made in our lives. And since this is a wine podcast, I wanted to explore what kinds of wines could be purchased now to enjoy later, to help me expand my wine portfolio. I've reached out to our in-house somelier 30 for three options that would let's say have a great return on investment. Are you ready for some financial advice? Let's dive in. We're starting off with a Windsor Hills Chardonnay at 2020 from, uh, California. And this is barrel fermented.
Ferdy:
Um, this is barrel fermented. Yes. Yeah. And it's a fairly young one. It's a 2020. So we are talking about, um, the aging ability of a wine. I think it, it, it's going to be fun, uh, to taste the wine now, and then I could tell you what to expect five years down the road, right. And how this wine is going to evolve. So, um, this is a beautiful wine. I love, I love Chardonnay. I'm a Chardonnay drinker. Um, California, chary always has those benchmark characteristics that are, um, the, the red apple, uh, if they're fermented in barrel, like this one, they have the vanilla, the butter scotch. They remind me a lot of an apple pie freshly made and you can almost smell it in the glass. Yeah.
Ferdy:
So when we talk about aging wines, um, wines age, because of certain, um, characteristics of a wine. So the, the most common and the most, uh, useful for aging wine is acidity. So wines with a lot of acidity are more, are more age worthy and that's because acidity, uh, is a good preservative and it, and it stops the development of our harmful bacteria that will spoil the wine. So the more acid, the better then there's for, for, uh, and for whites, that's probably the most important factor to have. So this is a lot of acid it, which is great. Mm-hmm
Sumner:
Okay.
Ferdy:
More of like a, uh, apple sauce. Um, and the, um, the aromas of the barrel are going to turn into, um, toasted Walnut Maron, um, much, much deeper. So we call those tertiary aromas. So within this one is going to have a new dimension of flavor. So it will have the primary that has right now are the apples, the pair, the, the sweet lemons that I was mentioning, then the secondary aromas are given by the wine making technique. So this is aged in barrels. So you get barrel notes and then the third series are given by the aging in bottle, right? So you are adding a third dimension to this wine and it's, it's going to be awesome. It's already very tasty, but I will lay down a bottle of this in my cellar and revisit in a few years from now. This is awesome.
Sumner:
Yeah. Cuz right now it's like very, it's like very smooth. Um, it, um, yeah, very flavorful. I definitely get like the, like very strong, like apple, like having lemon in the background as well. And then cuz it's like Oak barrel, there is a little, I feel like there's some vanilla kind of also when there is, well, um, I actually had a question though, cuz you're mentioning, it's like five years, which is still, you know, that's a, A's a decent amount of time. Is there a reason why you would wanna on like at peak it's like at five years, like, is it like something specific to Chardonnay or is it like white wine that you wouldn't necessarily age this like more than five years?
Ferdy:
Um, okay, so that's a great question. So the first thing I'm going to say is that, uh, most wine the, then it's made commercially is not meant to be aged. Gotcha. So this is like, and the percentage is very high. I think it's like something like 95 to 98% of all wines are meant to be consumed young.
Sumner:
Okay.
Ferdy:
So wines like Salan Pinot Grio, most rose, um, young reds, like a bushel, most Pinot noir they're meant to be consumed young.
Sumner:
Right.
Ferdy:
So then there's a 1% of wine, like a 1%, 2% there are made, uh, with the ability to age. It doesn't mean you have to drink the mold, but they get better with time.
Ferdy:
Okay. Um, so when I talk about peak, uh, that is not an exact science that just comes, uh, with the amount of wine that you have consumed, uh, of the same wine that you have consumed throughout your, uh, wine education. So I, I have had a lot of Chardonnay to be able to say like, oh right now this is drinking very well. But based on the acid, based on the aromas, based on the structure of a wine, I could predict that in five years, one will be at its peak and then it will slowly start the decay in a way and decline in, uh, in the flavor profile. Uh,
Sumner:
So it'll, it'll be Chardonnay to Chardon. No way is basically
Ferdy:
I love a good pun. Uh, it will, it will, it will start. It will start, are slowly, um, losing its its appeal. It's, uh, fragrance, it's a vibrancy and it will start becoming more of an educational, an educational beverage, like something that if you're, if you want to learn what happens to wine along, you know, when it starts getting, uh
Sumner:
Okay.
Ferdy:
Like for, for example, reasoning mm-hmm
Sumner:
Okay. Yeah. Wow. This wine in particular like from, uh, from California, like where the region is in what region or what areas do you look for for high acid or something to like, you know, so that you can put it away for a while, like with like a wine from a cooler region, also be able to do the same thing. Cause this is like kind of from a, some kind, a warmer region, generally speaking.
Ferdy:
Yes. This is from a warmer, from a warmer climate. Um, and you are correct. Cool. Climate wines tend to have more acidity just because the process of ripening the grapes, uh, during the process of ripening, the grapes is never too hot. Um, yeah. Especially continental climate, um, or eye altitude wines. They never get to ripen, uh, and develop like an enormous amount of sugar. So they retain a lot of their natural acidity.
Sumner:
Okay. Interesting.
Ferdy:
But winemakers winemakers are also, I, I consider winemakers almost, uh, on a, on a being chemists in a way they know when to pick the grape. So if you pick a little earlier, then you can preserve some of that natural acidity in your wines. So you can make eye acid wines, uh, in, in every climate and every soil it's just up to the winemaker. So it shows when I, when I drink a warm climate wine with a lot of acid mm-hmm
Sumner:
I feel like AEST in the beginning with the acid, kinda the back of my mouth a little bit. And then the flavor just kind of rolls out like a nice carpet. Like it just like this, like be kind, almost a beautiful tapestry. And then it all kind of like gets together and like kind of commingles like its like two different sides of a party kind of like, ah, well let's go talk to them, let's see what this is about. And then they're like, oh this is great. These guys are awesome. And everybody's having a good time like is, is real nice. Um, for, and
Ferdy:
That's a beautiful analogy.
Sumner:
Yeah. Oh thank. Oh thank you. Thank it. That's
Ferdy:
A beautiful analogy. I might, I might, I might steal that from you,
Sumner:
But please, please do. So I'm excited to see like what this would be in five years, especially like the more apricot kind of flavors, like would the acid be a little bit more toned down after five years? Okay.
Ferdy:
Yes. The acid will mellow will mellow down a little bit and the uh, the fruit will show a little bit more, but it, it, we are talking, um, we're talking dried fruit, we're talking, um, more of a, you, you will taste would taste the age in a wine because it imagine, imagine like the, the evolution of fruit, like our fruit goes from like UN riping. Like if you, if you pull something from a tree when it's not riping yet, and then you wait to, to have it, riping in your, uh, in your pantry then if you forget, it gets a little bit more, uh, sweet and sugary. Uh, yeah. And it started to taste a little bit bruised and then it goes through a face of drying completely. And uh, and that's what, when you get dried fruit, then if you don't store it properly or if the fruit is not high quality, then you get them moldy and you get the spoilage. And that's what happens to wines that are not made well or that are not made to be consumed, uh, old. Right. You open a bottle of wine that's past its prime and it tastes moldy. It tastes funky and you will, you will smell it right away that it's not a smell of developed fruit. You'll smell decade fruit.
Sumner:
Yeah.
Ferdy:
And, and that's how you can tell when a wine is not, is it wasn't meant to be aged?
Sumner:
I was gonna say, that's the party you don't want to go to.
Ferdy:
Exactly. I've experienced that many times because I'm a lover of old wines and sometimes I experiment like, oh, let's I I'm going to buy this 50 year old, New Zealand Sanon block and see what it tastes like. And yeah, most times you get disappointed, but sometimes you get those lovely surprises and that's the, the fun of, uh, drinking old wines.
Sumner:
Yeah. Actually just on a practical note, I was just curious, cuz I, I lived in an apartment in Los Angeles. I unfortunately don't have a wine cell. Um, what are some tips that you have, if you wanna save wine and put it away, like mm-hmm
Ferdy:
So the most important thing is temperature. Okay. So temperature is the most important, there's several factors that could affect your wine. Um, but temperature is the most important. So you don't want your wines to be above. And I'm going to say 60 degrees of Fahrenheit just to, you know, to, to, to, to cut some slack, but ideally 55 is perfection.
Sumner:
Gotcha.
Ferdy:
So you could buy a small wine fridge fridge, or you can, you can leave it somewhere like a garage that you know is not getting, is not getting like temperature swings. Yeah. It stays pretty then. Uh, dark darkness is very important. You don't wanna expose them to sunlight. Uh, sunlight could have, could affect the quality of your wine. Uh, uh, continue vibrations. Let's say like, you know, when you buy a wine, uh, and you go from the store to your house or when you get your wine delivered the vibration of the truck, that's bringing the wine to your house or your car, uh, that's not going to affect your wine, but let's say you need, you, you live near a railroad and five to 10 times in a day, your house shook with the trains. Go, go going by. Then you want to consider, um, you know, renting a little storage facility and store your wines there because vibration does affect the quality of your wines.
Sumner:
So for our California listeners, with all the earthquakes, you wanna mm-hmm
Ferdy:
It's just the, the molecular stability of a wine. Okay. Like you you're changing. Like you're basically like creating different bonds and uh, you're creating an instability in which sediments were not set or it will form too early. Um, we were getting into high chemistry here, but that's, that's the point like vibration is bad. Don't shake your wine.
Sumner:
That makes sense. It's like it would affect the chemistry of the wine and um, it could make it go bad over time.
Ferdy:
But I it's funny because when you age a wine, there is so much chemistry happening. Like, and we'll, we'll talk about it. Uh, actually now if we, if we taste the
Sumner:
Next wine sure. I was gonna say, yeah, we could go to the next wine
Ferdy:
Right now. We are tasting a wine with some age. So this is a 2060. So this is not a, a very old wine, but it's not a young wine. This is eight years old. And it's the Chateau grand champ, old vines, which in French is pronounced building.
Sumner:
I had to look that up. I'm I'm not, I mean, I pretty much just know English. I wanted to try and get it right. Cause it's Chatto oh boy Cove vine
Ferdy:
Mm-hmm
Sumner:
You were far closer to France than I was
Ferdy:
I know that, that means I know of gel beans means old vine.
Sumner:
Yes.
Ferdy:
Which means that this wine was made from vines. There are 20 to seven years old, which is a great indication of quality because a, an old vine produces less, less yield, but higher quality, more complex fruit. And this is a Bux here's another important factor in the how to age, how to see if a wine is age worthy. So we talked about acid. Now let's talk about phenolic compounds. A wine with tenants is going to be more ageable uh, because tenants are crucial in stopping bacteria from developing. And what they do is that through, with time with the, uh, with the micro oxygenation, it comes from the cork they pull and they fall to the bottom as sediment. Okay. So while the wine is aging, it's also finding itself. So it develops this more complex nuances. So first off let's look at the color of this wine and if you have it at home and you're doing this at the same time with us, uh, you'll notice this does not look like your average color of a red wine.
Ferdy:
This is more Garnet, almost like a light brown. So you could see that there's some signs of age. Cause what happens to white wines is that they go from, uh, lemon straw color to Amber. Hmm. Uh, with red wines, they lose strength in the color. Interesting. So the, the color goes from Ruby to Garnet, to almost like a dark brown Milky kind of quality. So this is already developed. It's color. Like it's getting to a full Garnet and it's beautiful. And when you smell it, you smell that the fruit is developing. Interesting. This does not smell like fresh fruit. These already smells like dried fruit, figs, dried figs, dried flowers, dust. That's the remind you of like, I mean, I'm, I'm Europeans, I'm very used to this kind of smells, but it, it smells like walking into an old cathedral or an old church. You smell like old wood.
Sumner:
Yeah.
Ferdy:
Dust like, um, incense.
Sumner:
Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, especially in Southern California, like, I mean, everything is all buildings are kind of made, destroyed, rebuilt. Mm-hmm
Ferdy:
It does.
Sumner:
It smells like it.
Ferdy:
It definitely does. You're getting, you're getting, um, you're getting the, the developed aromas. So the tertiary aromas of a red wine, so dried fruit in this case, um, I get also like leather, uh
Sumner:
Mm-hmm
Ferdy:
Wet leaves, scorched earth. And I get a little flints, which in Bordeaux is a quality that comes from their gravel soils. They tend to make the wines a little Flint here. And this is, uh, this is a beautiful wine. And right now, uh, I would say that this is close to be at its pick. Oh, interesting. So 80 year, this is 80 years old is drinking very well right now mm-hmm,
Sumner:
Which I, I just learned that today. Actually I didn't realize, I always thought that Bordeaux was a certain type of grape. I had no idea it was a mixture of different grapes.
Ferdy:
Yes. There's a, there's a six loud red grapes that you can use to make a Bordeaux B blend. So you have Cabernet and Merlo are the two most important or the most, I should say the most widely used. I
Sumner:
Isn't that what this specific wine is like, isn't it a mixture of the two?
Ferdy:
Yeah, this is, this is mostly Merlo. So I think this is a 60, 40 Merlo Cabernet Seon.
Sumner:
Gotcha. Okay.
Ferdy:
Then you can, but you can use Cabernet Frank, which is the father, which is the father biological father of Cabernet Seon. You can use petite Verdo you can use, uh, Mabe.
Sumner:
Oh.
Ferdy:
And, uh, and then you can use Cara.
Sumner:
Oh, that's I've never heard of car error before
Ferdy:
Rarely used Cara is a grip that was declared extinct in Bordeaux for a very long time. And then it was rediscovered in Chile where it was a exported, what, by mistake, they thought it was Merlo and they were making these amazing Merlo in Sheila and then wine experts were tasting them and say like, yeah, it doesn't quite taste. Like Merlo like, uh, like Merlo, it tastes more like carbon air. Uh, so they realized that they mistakenly imported carbon air thinking it was Merlo and thank goodness they did because Ary and Sheila makes some amazing, amazing, full bodied wine with the spiciness to them. Awesome. But that's a different topic.
Sumner:
I was mean that, that is fascinating though. Yeah. It, it, I, I, first of all, I'd never heard of it. And then second of all it being it coming back to life, I was like, okay, cool. Um, but yes, uh, but those are the different types of wines or I'm sorry, the different type of grapes that can, you can use for B uh, Bordea wine.
Ferdy:
So I think of, I think of a, a Bordeaux winemaker as a chef, like every year you have to make the perfect balanced wine and you have the six ingredients and the percentages are up to you. But the resulting wine is always going to be very balanced. It's always going to have enough acid. Then you get tenants from all these different grapes than you can use. So you are adding so many different phenolic compounds to your wine. So all these preservative agents that are going to make sure that your wine stays able through times, like when the one gets attacked by oxygen and time. Um, and, um, alcohol strained. Yeah. So you have all three elements combining one wine, and that's the recipe for a successful age worthy wine. So bodes are the most successful wines in terms of ageability like, as, as far as like a steel red wine goes like aging wines is not a new science. It's not something that we just started doing in the past hundred, hundred years. So the first time a wine vintage was mentioned as the 1 21 BC vintage of a Roman wine called faller, which is made out of the ICO, grape, Andre two for blended together. And this grows in, uh, Mount vis.
Sumner:
Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah.
Ferdy:
So cleany the elder, which, you know, he was born, he was born, right. He was born after one twenty one BC. I think he was born in, he was born like 20 years later. Right. Um, he writes about the fact that the 1 21 BC vintage was legendary so much. So then it was served. I'm sorry. It wasn't born 20 years there. It was born almost almost a hundred years later.
Sumner:
Oh, wow. Okay.
Ferdy:
Yeah, it mentions that that wine was served the neuro and CULA when it was a years old, but most importantly, that wine was served to Julius Caesar in 49 ad. Wow. To celebrate him conquering Spain
Sumner:
Oh, it's cool for me is that it ties in like a human experience, like to now, cause like we still do that now we still experience wine in that way. It, we you're saying there are certain vintages that just are superstars, but that the fact that a bunch of people get together and drink wine and go, this is great. And it's like that kind of same type of a experience with different wines in different years, um, is nice to know. It's like almost a celebration of being human,
Ferdy:
As I was saying, like, I love old wines. I love to take what I call gambles on, on very old wines. Yeah. And I've been very lucky in my career that tasted old wines. And if I can name, uh, one in particular, like I tasted a, a Marcala from SI that was made in 1840.
Sumner:
Wow. Really?
Ferdy:
Yes. And it was still drinking amazing. Like it was almost, uh, you know, you couldn't tell then it was that old, definitely old, but not, you know, almost 200 years old. Right. But for me, it's like the experience of thinking, like, what was the word like when this wine was made? I
Sumner:
Was before the civil war, at least for the states, like
Ferdy:
It was like, and I, you know, when I think of Italy, uh, yeah, right. It was, it was 20, almost 25 years before Italy was founded as a Republic.
Sumner:
Right.
Ferdy:
So Italy was still divided in small, um, little kingdoms then you knows, since we were in America, this one, that one was made 20 years before Lincoln became the president. So, oh, totally. Just, just to think of that, like, it makes, it makes the experience of drinking wine, like mystical and magical on so many levels.
Sumner:
Yeah. And it's cool that like, we still, you can still experience that kind of a thing now, like you even like with wines that are like, with this, you know, with the current Bordeaux that we're drinking right now, like being able, like, even though 2016 wasn't Lincoln's time, you know,
Ferdy:
What imagine, imagine that you dug, dug a raisin that was buried under a, under like a foot of dust, um, you know, over time, over time, uh, alcohol evaporates so that you are left with a base sweet,
Sumner:
Oh,
Ferdy:
Kind of, uh, kind of liquid, very thick, but at the same time, like very complex, like it's not just sweet, it's sweet on so many levels. It's like almost like a, a sweet, old fruit, but delicious, like very unexperienced. And, uh, it doesn't have to be one of your is old totally for you to get that kind of experience. Like, uh, this Bordeaux, for example, will get to that stage in 10 years from now. Okay. It would be much faster since the it's not a fortified wine. Um, so in 10 years from now, this one will be in a very advanced state of developing. So you will get super resonated fruit, super dried. The, uh, the aromas of dried flowers will be predominant. It'll be a lovely experience. The Italians are going be, be so soft that you could barely feel them. That there were probably a lot of sediments at the bottom of the glass of the bottle.
Sumner:
I was gonna say, uh, that was actually, I I'm glad you brought that up again, cuz I was kind of curious, I've seen different things online as far as like how to handle with like sediment, cuz you don't really want sediment in your glass. Like you want to use like a decanter or something to kind of pour into, do you recommend like using like a SIF or when you're like pouring it out essentially? Or is there like a certain technique that you recommend to be able to ha to enjoy wine that does have like sentiment sediment at the bottom?
Ferdy:
So yeah, absolutely. So one thing that maybe I, I forgot to mention before when you were asking me about, uh, how to store wine, uh, and an important thing that I forgot to mention is delay your bottles horizontally.
Sumner:
Oh, okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.
Ferdy:
So that the, the cork, the cork stays in touch with the wine and it prevents the cork from drying because the more the corks dry, the more oxygen is allowed in what happens is that the tans like this, this compounds are going to almost like, uh, fight with each other in the bottle. And in a process that chemically is called polymerization and they, they will, they will gain weight in a weight. It will gain, it will gain matter. So instead of floating, they will start dropping to the bottom as sediments.
Sumner:
Gotcha.
Ferdy:
So what you wanna do is that knowing that you are going to drink that bottle of wine, you want to pull it out of your seller. Mm-hmm
Sumner:
Yeah.
Ferdy:
And leave that, you know, you'll leave, you lose, you lose a little bit of wine, but that the wine you're is full of sediments and it's not a pleasant mouth feel, or you wanna gently decant it. Or, or if you have a strainer or a cheese clot like that last sip of wine, you wanna pass it through a cheese clot. So that yeah. All you get is pure wine, no sediments.
Sumner:
That makes sense. That, that makes a lot of sense to use a cheesecloth. Yeah. Cuz like I, with like a column under, I think is what it's called or like, you know, something you could sift through. It's like, I feel like there could be little tiny bits that get through, but a cheese cloth would be that that makes a lot of sense to use your cheese cloth to make sure that you get just wine and no sediment. Mm-hmm
Ferdy:
I'm gonna give you a, a, a mini crash course on port.
Sumner:
Oh, please do.
Ferdy:
So port port is a fortified wine. So let's start by this by saying this wine is the risk result of fermentation when the east converts sugar in the grapes into alcohol.
Sumner:
Right?
Ferdy:
So now if you were to stop the fermentation midway, you will have a sweeter wine. The sooner you stop the fermentation, the sweeter your wine cause grape juice is, is naturally sweet. It's just concentrated sugar and acid. Uh, so once you start fermenting it, the wine starts losing sugar and gaining alcoholic strength and you know, the taste of a fermented grape juice, which is wine. So now it port came out of a necessity. Basically the, the British empire at the time in the, this is the, uh, early 14 hundreds was in a constant war with France until France decided that just cut the ties with great Britain and decided not to give them wine anymore. So Britain was never known for producing their own wines int have the climate or the soils, especially at those times nowadays they do. But at the time they couldn't produce wine.
Ferdy:
So they looked to neighboring countries and they settle with Portugal. Unfortunately at the time, Portugal was not able to make stable wines for them to transport them, you know, on ships during the colonial times and bring them to the new world and to bring them to the colonies. So they decided to fortify the wines. So what that means is that you add a pure spirit. So distilled grape juice, basically, uh, to the wines, you stop the fermentation by doing that. So, so that kills fermentation, cause it kills the yeast. Alcohol kills the yeast and you have this wine that's, uh, much more higher in alcohol. In fact, this is a 20% alcohol wine and it makes it stable for your, uh, sea voyages. So you have these plants that are fruity and powerful at the same time right now, the reason why they age so well is because alcohol is indestructible,
Sumner:
Right? Yeah.
Ferdy:
So everything that's preserved in alcohol is a very long longevity. So these ones could survive those trips at sea. Uh, it's kinda like the same reason why we have IPAs nowadays.
Sumner:
I was gonna say that cuz that's the only other one that I know that has a similar story where they had to transport it so far. Um, so
Ferdy:
You know, they could not have put it would've been much cheaper for them to put hops in wine, but can you imagine how bad that wine would've tasted? So instead they added pure alcohol to the wines and uh, that created one of the most, uh, this was so popular that in the 17 hundreds, it was a currency. And in, uh, in, um, colonial time, like you could pay your way in port wine. So it was valued as much as silver and gold. And
Sumner:
It was that because it came because like port has to come from Portugal and specifically from a certain region
Ferdy:
Porto, yes. Port is from Oporto and it's from the DRO region, approachable.
Sumner:
This port is
Ferdy:
From area. This is from, yes, this is from, uh, from Thero region. Uh, the DRO is a, a unco, uh, heritage site because it's one of the oldest wine region in the world, wine regions in the world. Uh, and it's the, uh, um, it's a beautiful mountainous region. And uh, if, if you ever planned, uh, a wine travel related trip, then I strongly, I never been, but I know that all my friends that have been to the du region, it's, it's a mystical experience. Like those that see those steep hill, I call planted in their, uh, native grapes, like to, and uh, to franca Barka, which are the grapes that are using this sport is it is a wonderful experience.
Sumner:
I was gonna say, I looked at pictures of like between Porto and, uh, Bordeaux kind of just to get the idea of like the different regions and like Bordeaux. I was like, oh, it's France. Like I would, I mean, not to, I would never want to go, but like I thought it was gonna be more like maybe more Mediterranean or something, but it seemed almost a little bit more darker. It seemed like, like the river that kind of goes into the ocean, it's a little more browner. Like, it's it, it's beautiful, but it you're going there to experience the wine and the culture and that kind of thing. But when you look at portal, it, it is just like those Hills are magnificent. Like it's just like a really beautiful place, very sunny. And it's just, yeah, it's awesome.
Ferdy:
Oh, it's pretty, it's definitely like naturally pretty.
Sumner:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Ferdy:
Like the, like the nothing needed to be manmade to make it pretier like the water is like naturally beautiful. Yeah. So what about the ageability of this one? Because, because alcohol is a preservative, obviously this one is not only age wart, but it's shelf stable. So if you buy a bottle of port, you can open it, you can taste it and then you can just close the bottle and put it back in your wine storage, as long as it's not, uh, leaking. Like you have to make sure that it's upright. Uh, but it will last, it will be, it will be, it will last a lot, a long time, even when it's open. So you have at least another year of, uh, going back and, you know, Reta it
Sumner:
That's
Ferdy:
Interesting. What happens, what happens to a port is that the, you know, when the alcohol starts to evaporate, which takes a very long time and it's almost, it almost like it goes through the same process, then a, a steel red wine goes through.
Sumner:
Gotcha.
Ferdy:
So it will, it will become fruitier, definitely because, you know, it's a, it's a sweet wine to begin with and losing, losing the heat, coming from the alcohol, it will get sweeter, but then this, that fruit is going to start to develop. So this 50 years from now is going to be tasting more like dried fruits. Um, like those secondary and tertiary aromas are going to develop. But right now it smells amazing like cranberries and red cherries. And
Sumner:
When I got this to try it out, um, my first thought was like, oh, it's gonna be like a real sweet, like, it's almost like, I, I don't think is gonna taste anything like, like wine. I, I kind of had to be honest, I kind of lower expectations, which was, was not correct.
Ferdy:
It is because of that mouth feels some it's velvety it's textured. You still, oh yeah. You still taste, it still tastes like wine. Right? You still get tans.
Sumner:
Yeah.
Ferdy:
You get a hint of spiciness on the finish, which I love.
Sumner:
Yeah.
Ferdy:
Yeah. That's true. But then it's at the same time it's like chocolatey, the, the aromas of the fruit are like almost like a scorched by on like, and which, which is exactly what happens. They're not scored by the sun, but the, the, the, the, the alcohol as that heat kind of sensation. So when you combine that with the fruitiness, it does smell like the fruit is being baked in the sun.
Sumner:
The way that I see it, I think only certain people may see it the same way as I do. And it's also because of being in Southern California. But like, I feel like, like a, there's some red wines, like a Merlo or like Cabernet Southern or something. Like when you taste them, it's almost like having a really good steak, but this is like having El PA tacos. Like this is like taking that
Ferdy:
He is the California in new. Yeah.
Sumner:
I was gonna say, this is a very California and like certain parts of Mexico reference, but like El PA store it's, it's a kind of a sweeter meat sort of, I believe they use, it's like a Euro sort of, so they actually have to shave off of like, it, it, it has, um, European roots actually with El pastor, but you have it with like pineapple and that kind of thing. And it's, it's, it's savory, but it's got a sweetness to it and it's, it's quite good if you listen to this and you've never heard of it before, uh, if, and if you enjoy eating meat as well, um, get El past or tacos, they're phenomenal, but it's like, there's just, it's more to it than just wine because it is fortified. Right. You know, mm-hmm,
Ferdy:
Like exactly.
Sumner:
You know, like I, I feel like I'm not really getting a lot of flight. I need to drink more or what have you, I feel like even having smaller sip to this, like it really, I have I'm drinking out of a regular wine glass right now, but having it in a typical, smaller port glass mm-hmm
Ferdy:
See, for first off, I think that what you're describing there is, uh, in, in terms of the flavor you're describing how the, the fruit is caramelized.
Sumner:
Yeah. Right. Yes.
Ferdy:
And, uh, that in the, uh, in the Al Paso technique, when, when you use the hero, uh, with the pineapple and everything, you're, you're almost like, uh, you're letting the sugar from the fruit drip on the meat, and then it, it gets caramelized by the heat. Yeah. And that's basically what happens, uh, molecularly in the wine, which is a very accurate description. And again, I think I might steal that analogy.
Sumner:
Yeah. I'll tell you, I'll tell you what you, you keep giving me wine. I'll keep giving you analogies. That's
Ferdy:
That's awesome.
Sumner:
The deal we can make,
Ferdy:
Keep.
Sumner:
Yeah. Um, I was actually curious about, because like, this is a Ruby port mm-hmm
Ferdy:
It's just a distilled grape spirit.
Sumner:
Okay. Okay. Gotcha.
Ferdy:
So I can't tell you exactly which great varies they're using. Yeah. Uh, I can tell you that the most popular around the world
Sumner:
Yeah.
Ferdy:
Uh, to that they are used are LAN, uh, which in, uh, in Italy we call that Trin.
Sumner:
Yeah.
Ferdy:
So those are the most, uh, uh, typically used grapes for, uh, distilling spirits. I'm not sure about which one is used in this specific port, but you only belong or tri are the most, uh, in fact that's, uh, and then there's another one in Spain called iron. You might be surprised if you Google, like, what are the most planted grapes in the world? Yeah. LAN and Aaron will show, will show up in the first, in the top 10, even though you, you rarely see a, a LAN one, you see a lot of trio, but it's not comparable. Like how much Chardonnay you see out there, some in Youlan, but you'd be surprised to see those grapes, like riding the top 10 or the most produced grapes, just because they're used for so many different liquors or distilled spirits.
Sumner:
Yeah. That's interesting to me, cause I, I feel like with wine, especially in Europe, um, and obviously every country's different, they have different rules for, uh, production of wine. But like, like this has, like, if you look up this port, I know specifically, you can see like the different grapes that go into the wine that's made for the port mm-hmm
Ferdy:
Sumner:
Oh man.
Ferdy:
But I'm going that question.
Sumner:
Okay,
Ferdy:
Great. And the process of distilling and maybe somebody is going to call me out on this, but I'm going be, uh, I'm going to stand by this answer,
Sumner:
Whatever you say, Fred, I'm gonna believe you
Ferdy:
Matter which grape you are using. Once you distill it. Pure distill grape alcohol is going to taste exactly the same.
Sumner:
Gotcha. Okay. Boom.
Ferdy:
That's my answer. I'm gonna stand by it. Uh, I wish I had like that. Is this your final answer? That's my final answer.
Sumner:
Oh, okay. That makes sense.
Ferdy:
So it's, they, they don't want it to be above a certain, they don't want it to be below. Uh, yeah, I believe it's. I, I believe they, they don't want it to be below 18% and they don't want it to be above, uh, 30%. Okay. I could be wrong, but that's the only thing that's regulated is the, uh, the alcoholic strength of the final product. But about the grade that's used in the, this field spirit, that that really is irrelevant.
Sumner:
Gotcha. Okay.
Ferdy:
I, I know, I know that they don't allow every grape to be used, so you will not see port in a portal that's made from Pinot noir or from kaon like they use native grapes.
Sumner:
Yeah.
Ferdy:
But you can technically, you can make a fortified wine out of everything. Gotcha. So in California, for example, fortified wines are made out of Zien. They're made out Pinot noir. They're made out of Merlo. Um, there's other wines around the world that are fortified with different grapes.
Sumner:
Okay. Gotcha. No, that
Ferdy:
Port, that the grapes. Interesting. And this is one of the, this, this port that we're drinking, it's made by a legendary family. They they're the van Zeller family. So they've been making port since 1780, which, you know, if I'm sure then if you go to their, uh, vineyard, they could have library releases. There are, you know, hundreds of years old. I, I, oh wow. I would, I would not be surprised if they have something from 1780 or 1790 in their seller, but they are being, they've been port since 16, 20.
Sumner:
Oh man.
Ferdy:
So they were right there in the tech of it during colonial time cutting deals with the bris. So that's quite the family that, uh, imagine, imagine being born in the vanela family, it's like, oh, I wanna be an astronaut. Nope. You are going, going to make ports because that's what we do.
Sumner:
Ferdy:
Yeah, it's funny. It goes in and out of fashion, it goes in and out of fashion. Like it was the most popular drink for like 200 years. Even more now it's like, oh, it's sweet. I don't drink sweet wines with my dinner. Like who knows like maybe like a hundred years from now, ports will go back to be the most popular wine. And if you have, uh, one of these bottles and you've been sitting on it for a while, you'll be sitting on a gold.
Sumner:
I was gonna say, I mean, I know this is a wine podcast, but talking about IPAs earlier, like if you try to go find a beer at like a local liquor store, nine times outta 10, it's mostly IPA. When it comes to like the independent stuff, I feel like mm-hmm
Ferdy:
Crazy. The, the, for, for being a, being somebody who loves rose to have it compared to elevator music with
Sumner:
And very,
Ferdy:
It's so much fun and it's a great UN unpretentious glass of wine that everybody can enjoy. But there are also roses that are meant to be aged.
Sumner:
Oh, interesting.
Ferdy:
Very small percentage, but you'll find them, especially if they come from Tave in France. So for the listeners out there, if you're looking for an rose look for Tave in the south of Rowan. Um, but yeah, that was, uh, that hurts.
Sumner:
Well, I, I, I hope, I, I hope you're happy to hear that. I, I have, I have changed my ways and I do like rose now and like that, like I was saying before the, the duck 0.1, I've now mentioned it, I think maybe 10 times, but that rose, when I had it, I was like, wow. Okay. I get why rose is good. I get why people like rose. Like it really, it, it changed. So
Ferdy:
That's a beautiful rose.
Sumner:
Yeah. It's, it's a great rose.
Ferdy:
That's a beautiful, that's probably my favorite in our collection. It's absolutely a fantastic rose.
Sumner:
Yeah. That one really changed my mind. And so I'm, I, I, I don't, I no longer think of rose as low level elevator music. Uh, so, but old, my old self for sure did, but not, not anymore though. Like I definitely, I would like to try more rose at this point. And so, um, so I hope that helps. I hope that makes you feel a little better.
Ferdy:
Sumner:
There is good elevator music. There is definitely good elevator music. Um,
Ferdy:
And then it gets stuck in your head and you're like driving away from a place and still like humming it.
Sumner:
And yeah, I mean, there's, there's re reason why they use it. Like it's, you know, you can that's
Ferdy:
I mean, Yeah. And you know, and that's probably the reason why rose is so popular. Cause whether you like it or not, it will stick to you and you will have to acknowledge it at some point.
Sumner:
That is true. That was very true. Well, um, well, I've had a really great time learning about these wines and, uh, especially with like, you know, being able to put them away, try them again later, see how that's like, like it, it not, what's nice. What's awesome about wine is that it's not only just like the experience you have in the moment, but there's more to it than just like having it in the moment where you can try it later, experiment a little bit, see what happens like a little, you know, see how the, the flavor changes have a new experience. It expands the world of what wine can do. Mm-hmm
Sumner:
You never know what you're gonna get, and it could be a really awesome experience that you can share with other people, even
Ferdy:
I absolutely give old wine a chance. That's uh, yeah. That's one thing I like our listeners to go away with is give old wine a chance, age, your wines, buy them older, drink them old. It's a beautiful experience.
Sumner:
Absolutely. Um, well, cool. Well, thanks birdie for joining me once again. Uh, I'm really glad we could do this. And uh, I know we do have a promo code. Uh, I will mention it AF right after this, um, to be a able to save, I think it's, I think 35% this time. Mm-hmm
Ferdy:
I use that promo use that promo code, buy a few of each bottles and really experience how they will turn in a few years. It's a, it's a fun game.
Sumner:
I might even use that promo code. I'll be honest to get some of this wine. Cause I, especially now that I've, I've tried and also tried in the Bordeaux that it's been a couple years old. I'm like, okay, like, I, I need to figure out what this is. I, uh, I need to, I need, I need to have my 1840 moment.
Ferdy:
I know. I love, I love that we're giving, I love that we're giving a gate away a gateway wine. Mm-hmm
Ferdy:
That's why we love painters from like hundreds, thousands of years ago and the same thing from music from different times. And, uh, but wine is one of those things that will really give you a little bit of that. Imortality if it lives through time as a, as a lover of wine, I understand what winemakers go through when they make their wines. When they, when their wines are able to age, then it is. And for me, it's, it's what makes wine so special. You can age beer, you know what I mean? Even we were talking about IPA, not, but you can't drink an old beer, old beer. Yeah. There's no acid in beer. So it doesn't age. There is no other liquid beverage that has the same potential.
Sumner:
Yeah.
Ferdy:
That's what makes wine so special.
Sumner:
It's like having a live concert from years ago, uh, being able to experience it again. And even then it, it kind of changes a little bit over time. So then you get a little bit of a different take on the same live concert, let's say, uh, when you've had wine years later. Um, but yeah, well, thanks uh, thanks again, uh, for joining me ver and thank you all for listening. Uh, and, uh, we'll catch you on the next podcast.
Ferdy:
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me summer.
Sumner:
Yeah, no problem. Thanks. This is all, it's always fun to talk to you about this and, and learn new things and, uh, and, uh, discuss why rose is a great wine's. We'll leave it. We'll leave. That'll be the final note.
Ferdy:
Sumner:
Thank you so much for joining Furie and myself on another episode of sniff, sip, repeat, I hope you enjoyed the episode and learn some thing along the way. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss an episode. And since you took the time to listen to the podcast, we'd like to give you a return on your investment. Use the promo code taxman 35 to save 35% off your next purchase with wine insiders. It's a great way to start your wine collection without break of the bank. Again, use taxman 35 to save 35% off your next purchase with wine insiders. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next month.